Interview: Jon Toogood

Radio BurgerFuel: So what has been going on in the last 5 years since we caught up. You been busy?

Jon Toogood: Yeah, so Old Gods came out, I mean that's one of my favorite Shihad records, and we managed to do that during perilous lockdown periods in Australia. So that was pretty crazy but a beautiful record. It said everything I needed it to say. It pissed off the right people which is great.

And then we didn't get to tour it properly because the Covid thing. It's like release a record you're totally in love with and go, ‘Yeah, we're playing here, then, oh no we're not playing here. And then you just end up submitting to the universe. We finally did get to play some shows around New Zealand and Australia. They were great shows but it wasn't like when you just release a record and go boom - like I just did with my solo record.

There's a thing about being an artist, making a body of work and then performing that music at the time you've made it, because it's really representative of who you are so you can embody the songs. It’s an interesting thing making art. When you've just released a record it's like you're in the throes of love. 

Each record for us has always been a snapshot of where we were at, you know. And equally with The Adults, that's where my head's at, that's where my heart's at. There's something about being current with art.

RBF: You've just released your solo album, and I heard you telling Anika Moa that it started out as therapy for you, and ended up as a record. You’ve done acoustic tours before, but had you ever thought that you would be putting out a record by yourself?

JT: I was writing it for me completely and utterly. And it was about eight songs in when I got a suspicion that these were some of the best lyrics I've ever written, and some of the best tight melodies and song arrangements I've ever done.

The thing is, I gave myself a limitation right at the start, which was every song has got to work with just me and a guitar, and it made me write differently. 

In Shihad, we write fast, we're experimenting and jamming. So if a bit doesn't quite work going into the chorus, we’d say, ‘Hey Phil, can you play a cool widdly-widdly guitar line over that and that'll cover up that little blast and smooth this into the transition.’

When you're writing with just an acoustic guitar, if going into a verse into a chorus is not quite working, you've got to actually sit down and go, ‘Why is that not working?’ I've got to solve that problem.

So it's a different way of approaching songwriting and it was really rewarding to do that because it was a good challenge. And because what I was singing about was so personal and so important to me. I had to get it right and actually try and make sense of what had happened. I needed those songs to be just right. Sometimes limitations are actually a really good creative tool, you know.

RBF: So it was decided then? You were going to make it into a record?

JT: Yeah, I thought it was good music, and I find it really comforting. So I just wanted to share it. And I actually wanted to stand or sit in rooms with other human beings and perform songs and communicate those songs in a live context as well. So that means I have to release a record.

So I went into my label Warners. So I trust them and I know everybody in that office. I just played them a bunch of songs - kind of like Bruce Springsteen, Nebraska, just guitar and vocal. And instantly they were like, this is great.  Do you want to put it out like that, or do you want to work with someone? I instantly thought of Scott Horscroft who's a producer in Australia. 

We worked with him on the ‘Beautiful Machine’ record and at that time he really showed us the power of simplifying things. I think at that time I wasn't quite ready for him, but I did make a mental note that this guy's super talented so when this opportunity came up he was definitely the guy.

He co-wrote my favorite Silverchair song, ‘Straight Lines’ which is quite an unusual song. He's got a really good ear for keeping unusual time signatures cool or making things catchy even if they shouldn't be. And also when I played it to him, he said, ‘Jonny, we’re the same age. Do you realise I've got a six-year-old and a nine-year-old too. I'm in exactly the same space, my parents are getting older. I understand where you're coming from. So I'm totally in.’ 

He's got his own studio in the Central Coast of New South Wales called The Grove where we actually recorded Old Gods. It's a great studio. It used to belong to Garry Gary Beers, the bass player from INXS. He had to give it to a Spanish wife in a divorce settlement and then it ended up in the hands of a Christian community. It wasn't being used and then Scott Horscroft actually got some funding and bought the place and it's fantastic.

RBF: How else was the recording different to your Shihad experience there?

JT: Scott said to me, ‘Do you mind if I bring along some talented young musos that I work with quite regularly?’ And I thought, ‘Totally man, cool.’

One of the great things about The Adults was that I learned to let go of control. During those collaborative sessions, it was like, all right, if I stand back and let someone talented just show me what they got, I'm going to get way more out of this. 

Because before that, in Shihad, I was very controlling up until the FVEY record where I actually went, I trust these guys. And that was a learning experience from The Adults. Learning to let go and let the universe put you with the right people and trust that they're going to bring their A game. The power of multiple minds to solve a melodic or musical problem is actually way more than just one person at times.

I watch this guy, Andy Mac, who's an amazing piano player, play this beautiful Yamaha grand in a nice room, with two $20,000 Neumann mics above it and just made my demos just turn from 2D to 3D. It was quite moving actually. There were moments where I just had a lump in my throat. And man, I live for those moments. I got those moments tracking the sixth guitar on Bitter in Killjoy. I had those moments where I was like, shit, this is bigger than what I could have ever imagined. And that was the same with this record.

I know it's quite a mellow record, but it's actually quite large. It's like there's way more space than a Shihad record and it just gave this huge depth that I've never actually experienced. The Grove's got a magic to it.

RBF: Do you feel like you've got other stories to tell still?

JT: I'm already writing them, like I'm constantly writing. That's my thing, you know, it's like this world is a fucking crazy place and this world seems to be getting crazy by the day and I've got young children and I fear for the planet that they're going to inherit and I want to push it in the direction of justice and good. 

So if I can stand on the outside of the system and go That's not quite working, which is the role of the artist. They can also speak with their heart, not their head. And they're beholden to no one which is really beautiful and I'm very fortunate and I'm very grateful that I've actually managed to carve out that space.

Sometimes it drives you insane but when you nail what you're thinking or discover something about yourself that you didn't know or discover something about why you're feeling easy in the world that you live in, It's a really rewarding thing.

In fact, when my son was first born, I didn't write a song for I think two and a half years, which is the longest I'd ever not written since I'd started writing at high school. It was because my priorities had changed and all of a sudden it wasn't about me it was about him.

Then I got to a point where the band said we're going to make a record. So I reached out to Dave Dobbyn, because he's always backed Shihad and I've always loved Dave's songs - I love the way he writes. I knew he had kids, so I asked him, ‘How do you write when you've got children?’

Dave said, ‘Man, you've got to make space for it and you've got to remember that it's inherently a selfish act that you're doing. Yes, the by-product is it can help other people, but you need to be doing it for you, and you need to create a space where no one can come and disturb you and you've got to play.’

And that was quite a revelation to me because it's changed the way I sort of write. I always carve out space for myself during every day for writing. And I find I can sleep much better at night when I do that as well.

RBF: You’ve got the final Shihad tour coming up. Has this been a long time coming?

JT: Yeah, it's something we've been talking about for a couple of years. The ‘Old Gods’ album brought up a lot of things for us. It became really apparent at that stage that there were things that we used to do when we were younger, like, I've got to go on tour for eight months.

I've got like a six year old and a nine year old now. So it’s totally not reasonable to me to be touring eight months of the year. I'm missing out on my kids. That's just the realities of life.

But an album like that deserves a band that can get into a van tour for 18 months. And we can't give it what it really deserves because of personal or professional circumstances. Other guys in the band have got full-time jobs in the music industry, Tom works with BigSound music festival in Brisbane and Phil is the go-to guy for the tour managing international acts around Australia.

Obviously they love playing in Shihad as well, but they've got kids and different responsibilities. and it's We just decided, rather than do it half-assed, let's just not do it at all and go out with a big bang.

RBF: Sounds like you had some good conversations to get to that space where you’re comfortable letting go like that?

JT: We're more accepting, I think, of each other's differences now, which is really good. And I think that happens as you get older as well. You start realizing your own fallibilities and quirks and stuff. And once everyone starts to sort of think like that, it does make it a little bit more joyous and a little bit more forgiving. 

We've always prided ourselves on making sure that the show is first and foremost. So even now. Even on this last tour, we'll still sit around and go, that transition was crap, we need to move that tighter. We've always been sticklers for that. That's never changed.

But, it's like any group of brothers, there's a reason why you move out of home at some point and start your own life in your own house. It's great to see them, but we all need our own space.